Sick to death of Puppetistas and Protest Puppets

I hate those stupid puppets.

I've always opposed the war in Iraq.

I think that the current corporatist free trade model is an unmitigated disaster, leading to greater poverty, inequality, and a retrenchment of democracy as profits trump the public good.

I think that the World Bank and the IMF,  with the connivance of the current commercial banking system have effectively recolonized the third world, placing the poor, (and usually dark) societies of the world under debt peonage.

That being said, I'm sick to death of the self absorbed and self indulgent poseurs (Puppetistas) who seem to think that any protest can be made better by the addition of a lame piece of paper mache.

.

All it does is make people who are serious about this issue look like fools.

It also makes people who might otherwise be supportive less inclined to support  us because we look like a lame circus freak show.

It's basic human nature.  People do not want to be associated with the left wing equivalent of frat boys at Spring break.

(more below fold)

Tens, if not hundreds of thousands have died in Iraq, America has gulags, and Christo-fascists have seized the reigns of power in the US, and the Puppetistas treat this as an opportunity to engage in bad performance art.

They sacrifice the credibility of the opposition so that they can get a two second clip of the "look at those weirdos" variety.

Let's be clear: I'm not saying that we can't have fun at protests.

If you look at successful protests over the years, you see rousing speakers, talented musicians playing good songs, and an enormous amount of camaraderie.

There are a lot of people who still smile, even 40 years later, when they remember these events, and even more claim to have been there when they weren't

The Puppetistas are screaming, "look at me" without regard to the harm that they do to their (and my) cause.

The confirm the Club for Growth "latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading, body-piercing, Hollywood-loving freaks" stereotype.

I don't drink latte, drive Volvos, pierce, or love Hollywood, and I only occasionally read The Times, but I want my country back, and these guys are part of the problem.

•  Rate me, recommend this diary, whatever.

  Any discussion of the use of puppets in public protest must acknowledge the fact that Bert is evil

  by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:08:01 AM PDT

  •  Given the tenor of the responses...

    so far, I think you and I may be in the minority. But be assured -- we are not alone.

    There are many, many liberals who cringe at the sight of self-defeating, self-marginalizing liberals on parade in costumes or just plain bad taste in every day clothing and hygiene.

    During the summer after my sophomore year in college, I took a job canvassing for Greenpeace. I was the top money earning canvasser in the NATION for those three months. Why?

    Well, in contrast to my co-workers, I looked... "normal."

    "Normal" in this case meaning: I looked like the people whose doorbells I rang. I dressed appropriately -- skirts, slacks, minimal jewelry, no pins, no Birkenstocks, no ripped jeans and certainly no patchouli stink.

    My co-workers looked like they'd just come into town from a year o tour with the Dead. Small wonder the suburbanites in Ann Arbor and its surrounding areas (as far as the Detroit wealthy suburbs like Farmington Hills) were dubious when it came to donating the $20 we were supposed to ask for.

    Me, I raked in an average of $100 per door. After scoring huge in the POOR sections, the director started sending me to the RICH neighbourhoods, which really sent my earnings through the roof.

    I am CONVINCED it had everything to do with how I looked and acted. Also, I had a pet topic that served me extremely well. No dolphins, whales or other far-away causes. I talked about saving the Great Lakes and Michigan's smaller lakes and rivers from toxic dumping. I had the story down pat and the source material with statistics and horrifying anecdotes.

    What's my point? It's all well and good to dress like a hippie in your personal life (I certainly did -- Birks and all), but when attempting to convince, persuade or otherwise bring average people into your camp, it's far more pragmatic and effective to approach them as a "normal" looking person -- someone with whom they think they can relate. Appearance matters, goddamnit.

    I have as much fun as the next person at a Gay Pride parade, but it doesn't shock me that middle America thinks the screenshots they see of the MOST whacked out costumed paraders... are indicative of what ALL gay people look and act like. People haven't the imagination to comprehend that (almost) nobody, homosexual or not, looks like that in their everyday lives.

    APPEARANCE MATTERS. I still remember my mother's advice to me on interviewing for my first job: Dress in a business-like fashion for ANY job interview, regardless of the job. Burger King -- that was my first job. I wore a skirt and blouse, nylons and practical, low heeled pumps. And that's how I dressed for every subsequent job interview in my life. Guess what? I've been hired for almost every job I've sought. I wonder if the way I looked had ANYTHING to do with it.

    APPEARANCE MATTERS, GODDAMNIT.

    by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:55:40 AM PDT

    •  a brilliant example

      of a successful self-indulgent artistic effort occurred one Labor Day maybe half a dozen years ago in Seattle, where a group of metal workers constructed a giant (nine foot diameter?) ball & chain, which they transported in a guerilla attack to a statue outside the Seattle Art Museum called "Hammering Man," (a big tall silhouette of a figure holding a hammer, which is meant to be a tribute to workers)....They unloaded the ball & chain, attached it to the statue's ankle, and drove off. The museum was pissed. There were local outcries of rage & horror. But people got it. So much so, that the Museum had no choice but to co-opt the act by selling miniatures of the Hammering Man with ball & chain attached.

      How are parade puppets necessarily any different? They have the potential, like all art, to communicate much. Some of them might suck just as some expressions of various types suck. But I wouldn't use that as an excuse to ban puppets or label all puppeteers as interfering bumbling morons who make the Left look bad.

      All forms of art can be life-affirming, powerful modes of communication.

      by bluebird of happiness on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:24:24 AM PDT

    •  Story of my life.

      I grew my hair long in fifth grade. Dressed like a hippie when that meant bell bottoms, tie dye, and a peace medallion.

      By 18 I still had the long hair, but now the peace medallion was a Mao button.

      Then I cut my hair, stopped wearing my lifestyle and politics on my sleeve (so to speak) and adopted a "straight" appearance.

      I got my comeuppance the day after Reagan's re-election in 1984. I went into the study hall and greeted my fellow civil engineering students (mostly Palestinian, Lebanese, and Greek immigrants). I was sputtering with rage and disappointment over what a bunch of fucking idiots American voters are.

      "But, but, but," they stammered, looking at me wide-eyed.

      "We thought you were a Republican."

      by YellowDogBlue on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 12:08:28 PM PDT

      •  Reminds me of a friend 'way back

        in the early 80s who was sitting in a room full of applicants for a scholarship. The essay question was:

        "What is the most significant change in this country in the last 10 years?"

        He looked around: To the right: "Computers." To the left: "Computers." Later canvassed the others: overwhelmingly, "computers."

        His essay? "Kids today have short hair."

        He got the scholarship. And his hair was not long.

        I really don't agree that puppets are the heinous problem being proposed here. Protests are supposed to be about expression. If that meant wearing long hair in the 60s as a rebellion against the straight-laced 50s, so be it. If it means puppets today, okay. Billionaires for Bush is hilarious and probably pretty effective (at least they get press!)

        Personally, when I went to pro-choice rallies in the 80s, I always wore a polo shirt and nice pants. Rarely wore that other times, but hey.

        As long as people are peaceful and respect others persons, what's wrong with a few puppets?

        by stitchmd on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 02:53:41 PM PDT

        •  What's wrong?

          It makes us look like a freak show.

          It allows the press to cover the protest as a freak show.

          The people we want to convince do not want to be a part of a freak show.

          by msaroff on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 05:47:56 AM PDT

  •  Not sure why, but burt is evil got squashed

    here it is again

    

    by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 02:03:13 PM PDT

•  Let's be honest

  Fairness requires me to mention that if someone were to engage in this sort of public display of a puppet,

  

  I would wholeheartedly approve .
  

  by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:08:37 AM PDT

•  Tell me thats not a cool puppet...

  

  

  by sean mykael on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:12:01 AM PDT

  •  It's not a cool puppet.

    Think about the auto mechanic whose son is considering joing the army because he can't afford college.

    Will that make him more or less likely to oppose Bush and the war when he sees it.

    by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:17:30 AM PDT

    •  I generally hate the puppets too...

      but you're wrong on this one.  That is a cool puppet.  Goddamn cool, if we want to be more exact.

      by Cheez Whiz on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:32:22 AM PDT

    •  If a god damned puppet is the deciding factor...

      the auto mechanic likely has bigger things to worry about when it comes to his son.

      by sean mykael on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:48:14 AM PDT

•  Prose in Praise of Puppets

  While I perceive your point, puppets promote pictures in the press, which promotes the protest to the proletariat, which is a positive plus.
  

  by Caelian on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:16:55 AM PDT

  •  No.

    The "proletariat" sees self absorb children of privilege with nothing better to do with their time.

    It was the same with Viet Nam protests.

    People who were likely to oppose the war were REPELLED by the "long haired slackers on college deferrments".

    by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:25:08 AM PDT

    •  Dude...at least alliterate.

      Caelian went through a lot of effort to work alliteration into his/her post and you respond with straight prose, not a literary device in sight.

      That's cold man.

      by Cheez Whiz on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:56:16 AM PDT

      •  Dude, You're asking an Engineer to do Poetry

        Expecting to get anything beyond dirty limericks from me is futile.

        by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 12:42:46 PM PDT

        •  Dude: Engineering, Puppets and Outstanding Prose

          The real problem is that the DNC has not called for ending the war, Kos has not called for withdrawal, and the Senate, after seeing the pictures of screaming children being sodomized at Abu Ghraib, confirmed as attorney general the man who wrote the guidelines.

          While I am not a puppet guy, this passage about a recent Haliburton demo with puppets is funny and on-topic, even offers interesting engineering issues and definitely is not the problem.

          Then one of the puppetistas said, help with the cow, and ten protesters picked up the large cow and started across the street with it, and the cops did not like this, and they rode up full force with their horses, maybe half a dozen of them or more, and pushed against the large cow with blue eyes, trying to keep the cow from crossing the street. The police began to grab and claw at the cow carriers, and the cow, painted with the Iraqi Map, looked terribly sad, with its very large blue eyes, and one of the cops cut the cow with a push and a swing, and pushed the cow with the large blue eyes over on its side on the street, and the bold policemen emboldened, started chasing the cow carriers by horse, saying "Stop that man" and other intense things. Some of the cow carriers were arrested. The cow had a three foot cut on its belly near its flank, but stood upright under the tipped bucket of Hallobucks, the $100 bills with Dick Cheney on it.

          link

          Please recalibrate your problem sorting hardware,  Hal C.

          by Hal C on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 01:37:54 PM PDT

          •  I agree that this is the real problem.

            And I believe that puppetry makes the solution LESS likely, because puppetry does more to embarrass their allies than it does to draw attention to the issues, or pressure opponents.

            by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 01:56:56 PM PDT

•  Puppets Rock!

  As do drums and people hassling the police for curtailing their rights to freedom of assembly. If you don't like the puppets just make a sign that says "I'm against the war, but PLEASE don't associate me with the puppets."

  by Planet B on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:22:26 AM PDT

•  I like street theater

  I like puppets.

  by bumblebums on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:23:32 AM PDT

  •  Puppets are celebratory

    I'm ambivalent towards puppets in protest marches, there are arguments to go either way. They do tend to be more on the celebratory side of things, not so much angry. I am strongly in favor of giant puppets in happy parades and events. This probably comes from my long exposure to the local presence (for me) of In the Heart of the Beast Puppet and Mask Theater, a mainstay of May Day festivities.

    Really, what's not to like about puppets?

    by puppethead on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:12:27 AM PDT

•  How about hanging in effigy?

  Now those are some puppets with a purpose.

  by sandblaster on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:27:54 AM PDT

•  Yes to puppets.

  No to puppet regimes.

  Look, this is easy: If you don't like the way demonstrations are organized, get involved and organize something better.

  Personally, I'd like to see tens of thousands of us marching in our best business attire. Carrying flip charts. Armed with laser pointers.

  by YellowDogBlue on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:31:45 AM PDT

  •  Synchronized Brief Case Marching Drill

    Pasadena Doo Dah Parade

    

    by bumblebums on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:43:33 AM PDT

    •  OK, that one IS Cool.

      by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:49:39 AM PDT

•  I might suggest

  that you lighten up. That's a lot of venom to direct at a bunch of puppets. Some of them are stupid, just the way some signs are stupid. Some of them might be counterproductive with certain groups of people. But they also increase visibility, which is good - even bad publicity is good, as they say. At least we still have the right (sort of) to demonstrate as we choose. That alone, I would think, is worth celebrating.

  I do oppose rich people slumming and tourism in other people's problems for the sake of being perceived as fashionable and hip. But better they join our cause for superficial motives than join the cause of the opposition.

  by bluebird of happiness on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:33:08 AM PDT

•  I tend to agree that the puppets...

  are silly and perhaps self-indulgent. They don't, however, seem to have an effect on media coverage. At the last anti-invasion march in New York, the press ignored all 400,000 people, puppeteers or not.

  by Ed J on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:34:54 AM PDT

  •  That was the word I was looking for!

    self-indulgent.

    Thanks!

    by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 10:37:04 AM PDT

•  Well

  you do have a point, but I think the problem is more one of taste and aesthetics than puppets or no puppets.  I wholeheartedly support efforts by groups like Billionaires for Bush that make important statements through satire and humor.  The problem is what the problem always is - the media.  The big goofy puppets are what gets on the 6 oclock news, not Ralph Nader giving a rousing and eloquest, yet a little unphotogenic, speech.  Also, atleast at the core of most protest movements are artists of some sort, and like how oilmen try to solve all problems with more oil and military people try to solve problems with bombs, artistic people are going to try to solve problems with art.

  So I do hear you and understand your frustration, I don't think it's really as bad as you think.

  by scionkirk on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:04:09 AM PDT

•  I'm Recommending because ...

  ...I think this subject deserves discussion, even though, when it comes to puppets and other street theater, I totally disagree with you.

  Debate over what's proper to bring to a demonstration - and how to protest - has been going on for at least the 41 years I've been active in causes that employ protests. In my first antiwar protest, in 1964, we argued for hours over what we should wear and eventually showed up in dresses, dress shirts and ties so that we would be taken seriously. Among the 20 or so of us, we carried a single, carefully lettered sign, "Stop the War."

  The press ignored us. We were heckled as traitors and "Com-symps." A professor(!) spat on one of us and we were challenged to fist-fights by a couple of fratboys.

  I tend to agree with people who say that protest marches are a little bit too much of the same-old, same-old these days. Our protests need some new directions. We certainly need to come up with 21st Century versions of sit-ins and sit-downs. Be really creative if we want to draw public and media attention.

  Until somebody comes up with some fresh approaches, however, why should one aspect - puppets - of today's protest marches be consigned to the trashbin when other aspects - chants, picket signs, face-paint, and all the other paraphernalia be left untouched?

  All I know is that I will never, ever wear a tie to another protest march as long as I live.    

  by Meteor Blades on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:21:40 AM PDT

•  This diary is for puppets! n/t

  by Gabriele Droz on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:34:19 AM PDT

•  Can we all agree?

  That whatever our attitude about puppets, the "anarchist" folks who bust Starbucks windows are counter productive?

  by msaroff on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:52:00 AM PDT

•  I agree

  Puppets are fun and make a protest more of a party than a 'statement'

  Way back, I wrote a lame diary on this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/14/125830/042  I think if we want to take advantage of the media with protests they have to have unified messages.  At best, with some random puppets in the parade we get coverage as a carnival.

  Focusing the protests into a coalition of serious semi-related protests rather than a miasma of Bush/globalization/government haters helps us in many ways:

  • It provides a way for people to add support for the causes they care about
    
  • It provides a smorgasbord of tight messages for the media to chose from
    
  • It shows real diversity of different people with different ideas working together
    
  • It takes the focus from the least common denominator of our message and places it on the diversity of our support
    
  • It shows we're f***in' serious >:|

  Puppets are fine sometimes and in some places, but a protest is no place to display piece of artwork that took many hours of volunteer time to create.  

  Spend your political volunteer time canvassing for support, not co-opting art for political purposes.
  

  by anonymous coward 8 on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:58:07 AM PDT

•  Protests

  Yeah, I've been to numerous protests in DC -- first inauguration, 2 anti-war, the women's rights one -- but no more. I should say that I think the puppets are merely a symptom and absolutely nothing to do with the underlying problem. They are counterproductive, partly because of the 60's mindset of a "protest" and a "protester" that will not be overcome until there's an issue that 90% of Americans are protesting.

  Also there are a subset of college radicals who will never listen to reason and will always think that the more tear gas fired the better. They're looking to get arrested for climbing around on a statue near the Naval Observatory. These people are self-righteous idiots, but they refuse to accept that and will continue to ruin protests. The more important an issue -- and the more attention it gathers -- the more of these revolutionary vanguard or black flag anarchists will come out of the woodwork, and the more the media will concentrate on them. The minute protest marches become effective the media switches focus to the hooligans.

  Finally, a modern protest march has never, to my knowledge, convinced a single person to agree with the protesters views. It gets about 15 minutes of coverage on c-span 2 and there it ends. This goes for really BIG ones like the anti-war DC marches. Do you know of anyove convinced, ever, by a protest march? So it's a waste of time, a waste of gas, and a waste of effort to put one on.

  Ooh, and I hate A.N.S.W.E.R. too.

  by Addison on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 12:12:54 PM PDT